Building a Tourism Industry for Haiti

Machine transcript. Names and Kreyòl words may be misspelled. Tap a time to play from there. Also on Jou.

2:07Patrick Jean-Baptiste Hello, hello. Ghirline Emmanuel, comment ça va?

2:11Guerline T. Emmanuel [In Kreyòl; not yet transcribed]

2:20Patrick Jean-Baptiste [In Kreyòl; not yet transcribed]

2:30Guerline T. Emmanuel [In Kreyòl; not yet transcribed]

3:16Patrick Jean-Baptiste Yeah, paske diz de se ou menm ki brena, se pas sa wabbanyo, sa obje, sa paske. I haven't yet the BV2, has this been around for about 10 years or more, right? 12 years, yeah. And I've been following you, by the way, for a long time.

3:34Guerline T. Emmanuel What is a long time, Patrick? What is a long time?

3:37Patrick Jean-Baptiste About 10 years. I've known about your business for about 10 years. Where did you learn about us? I'm a geek. I'm an internet guy. Because for a while, I played around with creating a database of all Haitian businesses on the internet. And yours popped up a few times. So, yeah.

4:03Guerline T. Emmanuel And when did you make the connection between me? Is it when we got on Clubhouse?

4:09Patrick Jean-Baptiste Yes, it was when we got into Clubhouse. Yeah.

4:11Guerline T. Emmanuel Oh, wow. Wow.

4:14Patrick Jean-Baptiste Okay. I immediately knew it was you. A palème de BV2, are you unique in that space? L'instance de comparer as far as how long you've been doing it, maybe compared to some other Haitian organizations that are trying to do the same thing. Are you unique in that space? Or are there copycatters coming behind you?

4:36Guerline T. Emmanuel What kind of question is that, Patches? Okay. I don't, like I said, for me, I'm going to tell everyone, there is nothing that you are doing that no one else thought about doing it. The only difference is, are you able to pull through and execute where someone else have not? I know that before I was born, Haiti had a very thriving tourism industry. I have to say as well, and I can, I won't lie about things like that, is that in the beginning when I started doing, we did three years of research. We did our LLC in 2009. We did three years of research before we actually did our first tour. And when we did three years of research, we wanted to know what was on the ground. And on the ground, we had two IT, Agence Citadelle, and there was another one that based on bus company they used to do tours a long time ago, but they no longer do tours. I don't even remember their name. And then we had our Voyage Lumière. Voyage Lumière is actually Jacqueline Le Brom, an English woman who's been in Haiti for years. Over 30 years, Jackie been in Haiti. and what we did was when I reached out to all of them to try to work and because I was looking at what is the best business model my husband and I, right? Do we want to have a bus? Do we want, you know, with a bus? You know, we did our research. If you're going to have a bus, you're going to have a mechanic, you're going to have this, you're going to have more than one bus in case one of them doesn't work. You're going to have to do this, you're going to have to do that. And then we're like, but why are we inventing the wheel? So our business model is basically working with others that are on the ground in the industry already and we partner with them. Our biggest partner and that responded was Voyage Lumière. We reach out to every of the companies that you see that I named, Voyage Lumière responded. So we started with Voyage Lumière. We started working together. We still work together. We share information. Sometimes we share people or groups. If someone want to go from someplace to someplace in Port-au-Prince or whatever, a referral depends on the size of the group because we do groups. We do groups of 10 or more. When we started doing the research here, we also ran into My Haiti Travel. My Haiti Travel, Dimash Trimor, who wanted to do similar things that we did, taking people to Haiti. I'm proud to say from My Haiti Travel, Bellevue Tours, we now have Haitian Nomad. We have Safe Trip ID who's doing phenomenal work in OCAP. They've seen our story in Spaniola taking people from DR into OCAP, into Haiti. We've met some, who else do I know of? We have Culture Travel now that is doing tours to Haiti. But, you know, all of them are different things. we do different things. I don't see it as copycat or anything because in a thriving economy, country, in a country like Haiti, we should have hundreds of tour companies. Not less than 50. Hundreds. We should be having a touristic industry that is bringing millions of people in Haiti that could be 6 to 10% of our GDP and more into the country. So for me, we are failing. If we have less than a couple hundred tour companies, we are failing. We are a country who need hundreds, if not close to thousands, of tour companies doing what we are doing. And that's what I would like to see. And if we have that, then for me, Haiti, will be thriving because when you are in the touristic sector, because a lot of times there's a couple of people who are always giving me flack on social media, talk about, well, we want tourism, people are hungry. It's ridiculous. Your tour industry, your touristic industry support agriculture. So people will be consuming food in Haiti, so we'll be buying food in Haiti. You'll be able to impact the agriculture in Haiti. transportation, the tour companies. We were part of Dine en Blanc two years ago. Imagine for the amount of people that we had for that event with the, we were the touristic company for Dine en Blanc's team. You know how many bus companies we use in the northern area? It wasn't just tour company, bus companies in Ocap. we had to get buses from Wernam or Limonade because we needed more bus, buses. So you have a day of an event, the ability to inject money into the economy. so we need to start thinking that, and I tell people all the time, why do great places push tourism so much if it was no good? New York, China, Brazil, look at the amount of money, New Orleans similar to Capayicin, Jacmel, that they spend just for the French Quarter and the amount of money that come through the tourism industry for this area. We need to think differently. We don't think about eating, eating. This is not the way we eat. We grown, we are grown, we are not because of the possibilities that we have. And if I have a frustration, that is it.

11:01Patrick Jean-Baptiste I notice that frustration when I'm in a room with you on club sometimes. I'm like, yeah, she's pretty good. So, what's going on? What's going on? What's going on? What's going on?

11:43Guerline T. Emmanuel ap fouye ouwe ke moun yo genifayo konsotinansu yo vin nan nor et se sa ke mounen m ap dekouvli mwen men se okap depotan de kem dou ke m ap rale la kare m ap rale okap la finitou eskize m baske se se kreol nap pale m oblige pale kwen moun okap m bakone jambal an l'od jan anko

12:05Patrick Jean-Baptiste nan nan pale jambal an l'od jan anko however you want to talk ouve fe kenglish ouve fe kreol ouve fe english whatever sky is the limit debin goblan ou so kama sa chanje de de chalhoudou an haiti ap sa mwa yide how you grew up

12:28Guerline T. Emmanuel mwen mwen m m kite haiti a 8 e sa ke m sonje da haiti m sonje papa mwen ponye mwen mwen kwe ke m te gen l'en fom ta wavyen 3 a 4 an e mwen mwen ki pi an siy pou mwen se mwen sonje ke m nan habitasyon gran mwen ap sa mwen kwe de o bon ti pou lap kwe mwen te desan sa se pou mwen go ke mye e sa se prenie prenie mwen mwen mwen mwen haiti men haiti son kote si ke m ka dou m sonje le kwen te kon ale l'ekol m sonje map mache nan la yaw so ase map mache l'en ap soti l'ekol e mwen jwe de yon soupe mwen e nan l'isti sa se sa ke m sonje men e pou ke m gen go go go go mwen mwen pa kwe mwen gen mwen mwen ti mwen piti kon sa paske lem te kite a iti m vini si mwen mwen son chok kite pou mwen paske mwen kone a iti mwen yaw pa te akom ti ke mwen yaw chit a yaw prepa o wap re vini yon kote e mwen sa kapat biye su yaw te ka dhim sa mwen mwen pa sonje sa ke mwen sonje mwen sonje ke mwen mwen mwen mwen kite ma un an et mi i rentre nou yok mwen pa sonje mwen mwen mwen e renkotre avek mwen mwen mwen lè m vini isi men mwen mwen son mwen kite tre atache a papam papam vini so asante katoz mwen vini so asante sez men mwen toujou ga pil moun nan famim mwen toujou gen kouzine mwen ke nou ele mwen tat paske laj la diferans laj yo gran pil mte gen kouzine mwen ke mwen tatan se tatan se li se mwen sa ki preske elvin nan poni 8 an nan vim ew e mwen kadou, men si mwen mpala, mwen mwen ki te manke ou mwen mwen. Asi tout mwen sa yo ple e jowe ou mwen mwen pou mwen, sy tou pou tot ansi. E papa m te toujou la, le papa m voyaje m fè, pweske en a deux a, sa papa m apwesan mwen ronkota apè papa mwen yon konko. E papa m son lot mwen ke mwen mwen an, pwipi lampi lampi. Tout sa ke mwen fè, se papa m. Apre sa mwen vinn kompronn va le mwen mwen, lem gran mwen. E so, se sa ki vinn fè an ti difèrens ke mwen vinn apwesye lampi l. Lek mwen gran mwen, lek mwen fè ti mwen, lek mwen vinn gen kompreyansyon ki sa ke madem sa a fè avek tout sa ke l fè pou fèmine. Pasye nou tout la, se mamam ki te e yi dezem man ki vini em, te gong gran semm, gran semm, mamam. Apre sa mamam, tout mwen wè ki la, ma tot kouzin, e papa m, semm, fwèm, se mamam.

16:08Patrick Jean-Baptiste So se li ki te mati ak, it sounds like na fami ya, tout chay te sou li? Yeah.

16:16Guerline T. Emmanuel Yeah, se li men ki, ki pot tout chay la sou dol. E chon ti madem kout? Pako, pako ro amot fay fit, right? E pou mwen toujou dron sa, ke somme mwen ki kouten pil, me somme mwen ki reyelman, o mwen ki jé anan personalite avek na esi.

16:35Patrick Jean-Baptiste So l'otepi ti ou du, ou pat, le to ki wawal pou vin kopren sa, ki mwen, se papa o ki pala avok, ki tap ekstweno, bian se wè ou vin wè, over time, ke wawal le, me reyzon ke li pat, e sansak li pat, ou te piko sa papa o a kouze de sa, pa se papa o fill in the gap, pa nan tap te ke tout chay sa, right? So, e se papa ki te, ki te, ki te fill in the gap, so, a ki l'ajuté kouman se kompren sa, ou bian sombala ag gradu, ou bian ba instant, ou bian n'a realize sa?

17:06Guerline T. Emmanuel [In Kreyòl; not yet transcribed]

19:14[In Kreyòl; not yet transcribed]

19:14Guerline T. Emmanuel [In Kreyòl; not yet transcribed]

21:04se

21:04Guerline T. Emmanuel Mm-hmm. Wow. So it sounds like this master of humanity, u gen e lankai

22:40Patrick Jean-Baptiste Wow. So it sounds like this master of humanity w gen e lankayla. Sa si to koto te lankal lach? E w te pi jene, lami tan ou bien koto te lankal hiroki lachina?

22:53Guerline T. Emmanuel I am the last of everyone. Mwurim ki dèk. Mwen ki dè nino zelan e halsos. Wow.

23:02Patrick Jean-Baptiste Yo, yo, yo, yo spoilo? Eske tout mwur de spoilo, kamsa ou ke pou piti? Komiye.

23:09Guerline T. Emmanuel Spoil? Waw kam nou se grafami, chak mwen gomoun ki spoilo, ki spoilo, e se mwen gen yon kouzin de kouzin ke lpi klo sa vel, pi piti fwe mwen yo tou, e paske kon mwen do un gen yen ou gran se, apri sa mwen gom gran fwe, apri sa mwen gen kouze nou ki twa piti papa mwen gen, lek ke maman e mayye avet papam, e maman mwen te gen ti 18 an, e papam te mayye deja, lek ke yon toujou douan sa ke kondisyon te lè mwen mavel, lè mwen mayavel, se toujou ke kom se ke pou ke mwen ka pon twa ti moun sa, yo kwen se piti paman. that was, and that was important to my father. Family is important to my father. Se wou sa ke mwen do kon sa ke nan tout kouzin mwen, tout moun sa, yo lek ou atre nan kaila, ou pap kon lè ki es ki ki es, e kon e kouze ma pdi m kon ya ma pale pi plus a vel, paske le komanse yate nan laj, e ki di m kon sa ke papa mwen son ba e ki diferent, paske pagen e ke kom se ke piti paman lè nan tel tel l'ekol, piti tè tel alè nan tel tel l'ekol. Moun yo ki nan kaila, ale nan pi gwo l'ekol ki genye depi ki yo menm yo ka depanse pou le. So menm si se kouzin kout maman, menm si se kouzin e kouzen kout papa, tout moun lè nan, yon nan pi gwo l'ekol yo ki genye, paske papa m te kwen nan edukasyon, pil papa m son komers apil te yo kap. Lèk yon ma yavek maman, gon laj diférens kwen katoza, e so lèk de moun sa yo met ansam, yon genm boutiko kap, yon van tout kote, map walke papa m fami mwen se moun ki te kon an fe boason o kap. E pam de genm boutiko kap, yon menm yo kon fè kol la, yo kon van tout bay, so se koumen san ke yon te. E sa se fami tel l'usman, so tout moun ok mwen, e moun sa yo nou tout, se yo kap ke nou menm nou elve, yo genye bizis, like papa m kite pi yon tre isi, papa m kite pi yon ta, papa m kite nan 50 kek, pi yon tre isi. E kar te kek mwen, yeah, of course, my day 74, that's a lot.

25:42Patrick Jean-Baptiste Yeah, yeah.

25:43Guerline T. Emmanuel So men lo going in the early 19th, 1900s.

25:48Patrick Jean-Baptiste Oh, wow. Bwamon sanse de kin ti o kap la. What's distinctive about moun kisoti o kap?

25:56Guerline T. Emmanuel Mwen kwen ke moun o kap yo, sy tu ke lem kwamense, mwen be mwam kwamense tu ne Haiti a 22 an, e sou sa vedyon sa ke mwen gen, pweske, ouf, 30 something years, 30 years, I been going to Haiti, pweske chakane, mwen kwen ke nan vi, m kado ki mwam ke mpale, e Haiti chakane 2-3 fwa na ane a, COVID la, tou la l'otre jou, e, a ke, bwamon en, bozon nantra i studio, m basonje, m kwen ke mtene l'ot tipi ti a, m pat rentre, mwen apwe sa sou, nou toujou ale ou kap, pweske, chakane, komyen fwa, pa ane

26:44Patrick Jean-Baptiste m kwen ke

26:44Guerline T. Emmanuel sa e difer avet moun o kap, m kwen ke, moun o kap yo, gonfi ate, ki ekstraordinè, pou nou, e, mwen nan jene sa ke mwen, mwen malgre, gen pil moun nan vil la, moun o monte nan moun, tout kote, bagen yo tet an ba, nan sans, men, yo gonfi ate, yo kompon, sa ki, rele, AICM, yo kompon, e, bwamon en, wap gade nou menm, dizi, men, nou etoune nan, nan logit pou nou fè gran, parad pou dizi, men a, nou kompon se pon se, vide bagen nan men, nan vil la, paske nou menm, nou kon, nou soti nan zon ki rich, nou rich nan istwa, nan kulti, e, foutbol son go a fè, pou nou mizik, se yon gro bagen, pou nou nou gen, de go pi, depi gro gran, e, jazz, e nan, ou kap la, lsoti, septetri yon, al, topi kana, nou se kristofyen, kristofyen, piti kristof, desanda kristof, ou nou sa le di, yon gro bagen, e, mwen ke nan jenes la, vek, e, teknoloji, tout bagen sa, yo, ou gen yon bon, jen moun nou, kap kap evolye, ke kom se ke, mwen yo pon sa, men, m fyer de sa, mwen menm, kadou kon sa, ke komon kap oaz, nou fyer, ke nou kap oaz, batan yemen, setan ke nou lot kote, moun lot kote, batan yemen sa, e, pou mwen ke, kon se ke, yv le di yon bagay, paske m konpwen, sa l le di, pou ke moun haïtien, m konpwen istwa, m konpwen kultura, m konpwen sa, ke nou reprezante nan moun nan, e, mwen menm, menm, kon moun, konye papa moun, toujou di nou sa, am toujou di nou sa, ke, m soti nan, yon nan, pigo pi, dan le moun, e, se kompwen, nou pa kompwen sa, peyi dan le moun, se kompwen si ke, se nou mwen pou ki, pou an sa, ame, apwe sa, pou ke nou leve, nou chanje, jan ke nou ye ya, sa ki bon nou kembe, sa ki mal la, nou rojel, e, toujou kwen sa, ame, nan nan moun, papa moun, tou dba, i, sa pa, jem chanje, nan, te, papa, wap, jem tali, papa moun, so moun, ka pale, y, mal, nou, se la, y, se nou pa bon, se nouze ba, ke, kom si ke, mtandi, lot moun, lot langaj, pa, kout, bokote, pa, palakay.

29:44Patrick Jean-Baptiste So. So, ba mwetunem bakpil, lo feng, min Etatsini, ou di ve a onz an, ralassayo. So, koma, ke ve ke le, huit an ou bien onz an? Huit an. Huit an, okay, huit an, yeah. So, lo, lo, lo, come os Etatsini, ki, ou chanje premie expériens, ou chanje, ki premier manger haïtien, amin, ame rikyan ou demanje, lo, os. And what did it taste like? M'kon rezonp mando, kispa sa aïtien? Ah!

29:54lor

29:54Patrick Jean-Baptiste So, pa sonje, pa sonje. M'poye manje, m'te manje. M'te chanje ke m'te kriye nan tout. M'kriye, m'kriye, m'kriye, m'kriye nan tout. E nan tout vol la, fwe m'w yo pat konen sap, yo favem. M'sanje, paske lontan nan ayopoa. E y te gom balkon, m'kriye nan ke komseke. So chanje gom balkon de yor, en ayopoa, lek wapra ale ou ka wè moun nan sou balkon. M'sanje, m'sanje sa. M'pakone si ke sonba ek komseke ki patrie el menm sonje, ke m'te wè tatan seli, kampe sou balkon an, la kriye, la voy men pou moun. Mwen m'pwe l'anmwye nan avyon an. Fwe mwen yor pa konen sap, yo fèm kriye, m'kriye, m'kriye. Pou kon bie kriye? Mwen m'sanje ke m'desanti ke m'fet tout vol la se kriye, m'kriye. Pou jisle m'fatige, m'don. Mwen kwe lem leje, pounim bagay ke mwen, mwen yor pi lumye.

30:17Guerline T. Emmanuel M chanje ke m te kriye nan tout. M kriye, m kriye, m kriye nan tout. E nan tout vol la. Fwe mwen yo pat kones sap. Yo favem. M sonje. Paske lontan na ayopoa. E te gom balkon. M bakone ki moun ke konseke. So chanje gom balkon de yo. E na ayopoa. Lek wap prale ou ka wè moun nan sou balkon. M sonje sa. M bakone si ke son ba ek komseke ki patrielle men sonje. Ke m te wè tatan seli. Kampé sou balkon. La kriye, la voy men pou moun. Mwen mwen m apwe l'anmwe nan avyon. Fwe mwen yo pakone sa. Pe yo favem kriye, m kriye, m kriye. Pou kon bie kriye. Mwen m sangle ke m desanti ke m fè tout vol la se kriye, m kriye. Pou jis lem fatige m don. Mwen kwe lem leje. Pou lem bagay ke mwen. Mwen yampi lumiye.

31:24Patrick Jean-Baptiste M diyo. Mwen diyo mwen lumiye, lumiye, lumiye.

31:27Guerline T. Emmanuel Pou se prenie. Pou miye me mwam de. E dounyok. Apwe sa lem ateri. Goussel fwè di. Mwen bwase sen ala fwè m de. Yo te vin mwen. Didele ma fwè fwè. Kase m vini na mwa optob.

31:44Patrick Jean-Baptiste Oh, wow. Mwen ke.

31:45Guerline T. Emmanuel So, that was a big shot for me. Apwe sa se lem wale lakay mwen de to amoun ke. Mwen sonje m konen. Mwen e. Sa se me mwa. Pou mi me mwa ke m gen. Mwen pa sonje manje. Pase w mwen pa on fami ke konse ke. Kale deyo yon manje. Ba e sa yo. Nou patel vena ale deyo yon manje. Soutou nan bagay ameryke. Mwen sonje. Papa m son mwen ki batay an pil. Pou ke nou kontine par le kreol. Pou ke nou kenbe kule ti kreol la. E y fè an pil, an pil, an pil efo. Pou ke nou te kenbe sa. E s kom si mwen yon ki te denya ki pipiti ya. E m kado ke. M konpon konya. E m konpon ideya. M konpon pou ki rezon. Mwen je ke m kado ke m patremen. M patremen pizza. Mwen jis konya pizza. Se pon ma ek. Kom si ke m fè foli poli. Pase ke fomaj la. M jis paten eme. Jaf fomaj la. M kwen ke m kwomanse manje pizza. Mwen yen eme pizza jis. Lek mwen eme avek marim. Ki men em nan pizzeri na. Pizzeri ya. Ou no. Pase ke pizzer kros la. Pi gros, pi tek. M jis paten eme. Jaf fomaj la. Kwen yam ka manje pizza. Mwen lontan lan jen es mwen se pomba. E ke mwen men manje.

33:12Patrick Jean-Baptiste M paten menje. Mwen yen ke li.

33:16Guerline T. Emmanuel Figi pizza. A koule. Di jis konya.

33:20Patrick Jean-Baptiste Figi pizza. A kou le. Di jis konya. Yya, se te pe mwenye manje mwen te goote mwen pa tremen el men. Mwen pou mwen sos na te te teis like savan. So. Yya. Yya, mam am demen em ko. Mwen demen em ko. Lek mwenye koli aylan. Mwen te se e Brooklyn. Yya, se Brooklyn de desan? Brooklynia there are parts Nbetulu boy residentwar guitar muita prosecutor

33:42Guerline T. Emmanuel Be et to le was ki Brooklyn.

33:45Patrick Jean-Baptiste Kunye uri re isi so, bon o ide de koma le kolte, ke ke timun a isi en, a isi en bo kote ou vien, koma, kote ou te, kote ou te de kol.

33:56Guerline T. Emmanuel Le nou vi, dena PS20, dena Clinton Hill, so mwen nem, m pa, lem vi ni pa te genye an pila isi en, le ke wab, lem vi ni tou, m so ti non peyi ke, mwen tout moun se noua yo ye, e, nan ide pa m konm ti moun, e, m pa, koum si ke woy an pil moun kle, blan ba isi, se bawa e ke m te sonje, a iti fasil, men si ke moun moun kle, se pa moun kom, kom si ke, i pa te bagen mwen, pas se m te toujou, kwe ke m panse, e, mwen tout moun noa, kom a isi, se ide sa moun sonje, ke m genye an ket, mwen, lem vin isi, mwen ti moun noa yo, men pa laven yo, an kreol, se le sa moun vin wè, ke kom si ke, nan, ba e yo chanje, pas se moun ap gade moun, kom si kwan ti jan dou ol, e, kon em dou, a isi la kom si ke, moun yo dou ab, pa pou ale, ale tranje, ou so, moun moun, moun moun ale, ale tranje, ou so, an moun yo, kwa prepe tel, men ide a sa, sa vle di nan tet, ou, i pa, reyelman, an, e, an nou di, sa kompiyout, i pa fèr kent sens pou reyelman, se le kon vini, apwe sa wap gade, wap di, bon, ansamblimon lot kote, e, lem ale likol, chanje, a isi, wale likol, pa gen uniform, e, primye fan ma pou ale likol, avek rad normal, e, soule nan piem, e, chouset, mba mette patalon, mba el vè, avek mette patalon, van vini si, e, konye wap, mette kote, le, baye sa ay ou si, apwe y wap mette choukoukad, wap mette, e, barret nan tet, baye sa ay ou si, pa baye ki te normal, i te onti jan dwol, bouti moun isi, yak mando koto soti, wap di Haiti, yo pa konye kote Haiti, yo pa chom tan de, de pale de Haiti, lem te vin isi pape gen moun ki konye Haiti, we man em sonje, nan Junior High School, nan, nan Great School, moun yo vin konye Haiti, nan katre ve yo, lem komanse, lem wap tre l'ekol, e, nan High School, se ba l'ekol High School, vweman, e, yon komanse, pas yo komanse, genye, duvalye, jan Krood Kale, o komanse genye, moun ka vin isi, o komanse genye, fenomen bout people, tout bagay sa yo, se, se sa yo, men mwen mwen mwen, lem vin nan 76, ekspenyans, mwen mwen, yo pak konye kote Haiti, ye, e, men, kwen ti moun toujou, timoun, e, yon, ou toujou, diférande yo, moun sonje, ke mwen mwen, moun son ti nan, nan fami, ke kom si ke moun baka bala, mwen ke ne pon di chan, wakadim ke ne kon ba fè, sou ti nou se, de vayen ke kom si ke nou batay, e, fini batay la, ou kone ayisien, ou fin batay jodian, abe ke mwen vin pala avon deme, ou e mwen mwen sou ti, ayiti, wak dren zami, alakali te moun san want, ou fin batay avek, timoun nan, men vin pala avon deme, ou e, wakadim ba e sa, se ma logik sa, ou kone, eni, ke moun sa ye, bou, bou net, men, i se sa yo, ke moun sonje, e, moun sonje ke, le ke, mwen men, mpate jom gen problem, di se ayisien ke mwen, paske, la kay mwen, i de pa di ayisien, som ba e ki pate jom, pasen nan tetou, pou tet jom ke, e soutou pa pam te, pale kreyol, normal, e, ou pa kache, ko pale kreyol, le finisi ke moun fè, freka avon, e, ou batay, ou gen respe, pou tetou, tout ba e sa, e se sa ke moun konet, e, mwen men, e se kwa sa ke mèlve, som soti, nan, nan lek, par an moun ki te konen, kote ayiti ye, avek, on, ayiti vini, sou nou, an pil, la katéven yon, an men, kon si ke, se nan moun, an moun, ve, e, an nou, di gwan sa ke moun ve, un moun ve imaj, paske, yon vi na sosyo, avek, bout people, yon vi na sosyo, avek, e, moun ki pov, e, ba e sa, se, e, si, kwe m tande, lwan ve, paske, se va a yiti sa ke moun konne, se va a yiti sa ke moun te kite.

38:29Patrick Jean-Baptiste On fast forward, ou lan, ou lan 20 en nou, ou lan, ki bout al koleje?

38:35Guerline T. Emmanuel Dalina Baroque college.

38:37Patrick Jean-Baptiste Da lina Baroque college. Baroque, ok. Si yendo noli mavyong jovranico.

38:40Guerline T. Emmanuel masay? Ina kompos. Issa?

38:44Pa

38:44Guerline T. Emmanuel pa, kite malle. Non, non, malle na ma, issa yo.

38:52Patrick Jean-Baptiste Koman pa, on, issi, papa, pote, panse de kulti amerikain, en general, kom si, an relation de, de, koman, lan kontekst, ke koman li elve nou, as, as a Haitian, a proud Haitian man, a man who's proud of his culture, lan ki kontekst, li elve nou?

39:12Guerline T. Emmanuel Papa, nou, so, moun kwek ke ki pa, jem, rentre nan kulti issi, paske, maman moun ki, yote kite, pou te bale, yote komanse chanje, du valye, tou baye sa yo. Me, maman moun ki vini, yote travay, l'ekol, se de stabilite, ke, yote, oportunite, yote, paske, le kou vini, pa, moun kwek ke mdo, ki kwek an pin la edukasyon, ou oblige, mwen, ba te gyon chwa, ale, kolej, ou te oblige, ou konek, ke, kom se ke, de pou finitel, te bagay, se kolej, tou doan. So, ou toujou palo de kolej, ou toujou palo de, kom se ke, edukasyon, reyelman, important pou li. Me, pendant tan sa, mwen moun son, moun ki te toujou, ale, nan bagay, tout baye, bouklin, kolej, yo, e, afsi, de rose, tout bagay, dans folklorik, yo, nou te kon ale, nan tout sa, yo, nan, Washington, D.C., tour, e, nan Greyhound bus, yo, paske papa moun son, moun ki te reme, kulturyan, pi, y te reme, te at, y te reme, e, muzik, e, sotou, pou bagay, klasik, yo, so, tout bagay, sa, yo, lek, ou ti moun, ou pa gon, chwa, ou ale nan tout. Sa, se sa, ke, mwen m sonje, moun te kon ale nan, tout bagay, sa, yo, chak ale, m ale nan, to Washington, DC, bifo, moun te men konen sa, an toye, nan y vizite kapital la, nan y se, se, la, mwen m fè tout sa, yo, maman m pa ki a pou bagay sa, yo, maman m ale, paske, papa m apou ale, y di pou nan ale, men se bom moun kom si ke ki, maman m kwe, pou ko manje, ale l'ekol, e, ba e sa, yo, mwen papa m toujou, a mette pi plus toujou, paske, li men men mi di ki, l'tia tre important, y toujou, ba pi ken de kriti, e, a isyen pou, y pou an moun ki te reme, imaj nou a, isi, avek nou a Ameriken, kom si ke, paske, le kou vin ou pa konen, ou vin ni, yon m atro, e, goun sot de prejije, ke, yon genye nan peyi sa, kont moun nou a, ou men mou pa konen sa, ou vin rentre nan peyi, a, wap gade se, y de bagay sa, ou li men mi di se bom moun kom si ke, ki jem vle, pou to an rentre nan kulti, isi a, e, i toujou ba pi ken be, a isyen, touttan touttan, kom si ke wale lekol, le matre da kayo, e, i te yon gro problem, ou pa ka gen zan mi ki ta a isyen, e, ou pa ka, ba e sleepover dom ide, yo prom, go away for school, nan kampous, ba e sa yo se pa ou men mon ide, ke mte men, e, pense pou ale nan, e, fet nan lekol, te abage ke, kom si ke, i ki to fè, ou te ka ale nan fèt, an nou diwan sa ke, Christmas show, se pa vre si ke wap performe, wale, men kom si ke lot aktivite, se la kay la pou vini, apresa li, men si ke li gen kote ke li vle, men non, i ben non, se konsa ke, i te kem be kulti, e, pa te yon moun ki te to, abad bravo, pou an te nan kulti, se pas se li, men pou tet pal, i pa to pali angle, pa mba pal angle, pa mba jamen se, reelman pal angle, i travay pou an ti krastan, apresa, depi mou i ve, e, kolej, mou sonje, papa, nou ti mamam bo, nou te vi ni pou tet oportunite, ou te diwan sa ke te gen isi, men gen le naponte nan kolej, mou mou fok ke mou toune la kay, mou pati mou pat vini mou te lete, apresa, i komanse fe vaye vie, komanse le toune ou ka, e, papa mba jamen citizen, mou sonje, mamam te fe, e, men nan gran moun, katreve kon bien, pas se mou yem, grasa di mersi, hi hi, yo mou i ta, pam mou i katreve treze, kon sa, nan katreve treze, kon sa, mou mou vi nan katreve kek, e, so, mou toujou di nensi, pas se, mou vin gran moun, mou vin gen chans, mou kompren, ki sa ke yo yem, pou mwen, e, sa son, mou toujou apresi sa, pas se, kon yo vin palave yo kom gran moun, ou vin way yo diferan, e, so, se ba moun kom se ke ki te rentre nan kil ti isi, a, du to.

43:39Patrick Jean-Baptiste Mm-hmm, yeah, but talk to me about, ki effort, you've been in, ki group, ou join, ki so pansi de, e for, diaspora apres, pou handle, to, re, probably, to, to handle, you know, or react to, situation, na Haiti, pou, pou ez vidan pin problem, ke we all know, pe yin nou angene. Sa, wo, wo do you think, if fo diaspora apres, na Haiti? Talk to me a little bit about that, and ki involvement, nou lan, lan efet sa yo?

44:21Guerline T. Emmanuel avant ke nou pale de sa, I think, I need to, speak

44:27Patrick Jean-Baptiste pou, waw fon ti janje, pou angle, pou antipotan.

44:30Guerline T. Emmanuel I say, me and my husband, have been, going back, to Haiti, for, ou konem basen ting normal, ba mwetou nè sou kriyol, basen ting normal, avek anglè, ya. Mwana na avek, ma yin so moun ke komse ke ki vini si, a douze, e, ma poye di, kon sakibare ki, don la pou mwen, se komse ke, mgon, ma fe vim avek o moun, ki yon ti papam. E, lem dou ti papam nan, e, yon so moun ki, tre fie ke l'ahitian, pam le naturalize, ahitian atif natal, pa nan. Ki vini a douze an, ki komse ke, depi sezen an, avek popla, jan, ti job ke li fe komti moun, ni komse reton Haiti, el reton Haiti, di, chak ane, le ke nou men men nou akontre, yon nan bagen yon ke toujou di nan, ke, e, difisil mwen ka rekomondi, ke moun nan bak komponisa Haiti, e, pa jen mwen le Haiti, pa jen mwen men kon ekrive, fa mwen tou nen an pe yon. Ok, so sa se ide a sa. So nou men depi 20 an, mwen men m konmansa potre Haiti avel, e, le nou gen pitit pou nou, ite important pou ti moun pam yo toujou antre Haiti. E, sou pal avek, ti moun, pa nou yo, ide yo de Haiti, ya, se menm jen kwen, ide pam, avek papam. Paske, negatif la, tout ba e sa, e, ti moun, nou yo pa konen so a pale la, paske yo men men men, a la Haiti, a jen mwen sa vi? Nou sonje, anvan nou konmense fe to la, e, pi gran te toujou a la Haiti, depi lèk el gen en an, se Haiti l manche. Lot la, men men men, nou te oblige ane lèk el gen an 6 an 5 an, paske, te gen, nou te rentre nan kou de ta, nan tout ba e sa, bon. Nou jen gè lè la la Haiti, anvan sa, pi gran tou jen du, men zami, gade premyan el papa la Haiti, sa ke nan fe, eske nan pa la Haiti, gen an tel va la Haiti, en awe, ibe igbi gen pa la Haiti, sa na fe, baske, se somme tam yye, eske nan pa ydi, gade prem pa la Haiti, sa se premier. De zel nou, nou toujou, nou pali kriol, tou ba e sa, lè non la Haiti, a vel, e di van sa, ke bon, gade, lgade, lgade.

46:39an

46:39Guerline T. Emmanuel i, gen, pa, la, iti, san, fe, san, fe, baske, se, son, met, amy, es, fin, apw, y, di, papal, la, iti, sa, se, premier, de, zel, nan, men, toujou, nou, pali, kriol, tou, ba, e, sa, le, no, la, iti, a, vel, e, di, van, sa, ke, bon, y, gad, le, gad, lug điều sociedade nau Heritage Additional sa wap di, konye la ti mami, how do I understand what they saying and they don't understand what I'm saying? Ndouwe to a ge paske a Haiti lo a pale anglè, nou pa pale anglè, nou pa pale kriol, nou dou sa alon tan, sou papa le kriol la, pou ge zon kopanse kon mpase tout tan sa masule konm si konm wo pale le kriol. Mdi se pati mkonen lo vini, ou bak ka kompon? Oh oh, y konmense ba le kriol. Y van le kriol, y ba mwen yo kriol. Le kole bon an, on mwande, ne kriol li, il a ge kriol la. Lè ke l komanse na pa le difi an kote, ou konen lo rentri, mba tou avle viti an dan kayave yo, nou komanse ali, nan difi an kote, la le citadel, konye plaj, nou ali na resto, ane san nou kap, nou pa depè. Ti yon son gade mi ti mami, ou bak te e cham dim a yiti son pa dike. Awe sa le gade, msan mshita na plaj la m gade, awe sa m di kon sa ki bon, imajino, ou wanti moun 6 an, kap dou sa a prene fwa lant la yiti. Lot la, abite baske depi 1 an la pou antri. Sa a men mwen mwen tre prene fwa a 6 an, apwe sa yi toujou vini chakan. konye ale m ap gade, nan li citadel. Citadelle pa gwen gren moun nan citadel. Lak moun te desan, la pti omaik. Lè moun te cheval, wow, like this is fantastic. Ide sa ban nou, ou ide pou nou komanse, fon tou kompani, pou ke nou komanse rentri moun nan nan yiti. Paske nou di, samble problem nan, se paske moun yon pa kone, chan pe ya bel. Jan genye an ayiti. Se sa ki komanse nou nan route pou nou kreye bel vitos. Tout sa. Paske nou mwen nou te toujou vle viv nan peye nou, men nou kone ke nou papwe. Toujou di mwen papwe, jis nan tre mwen vif mwen te tou baye sa yo, sanye, ki sa kwen ap pote. Ou ak a fe 20 an, 30 an, deyo, apwe sa ou retoune, ki sa kwen ap ap pote, ki sa kwen ap vini ki diferan, ki pa genye. Nou fete wazan recherche, baye sa yo, apwe sa, nou kreye bel vitos. Bon. Lè mwen tre isi, e mwen tre, nou peryot ke komp si ke tout, ou te di kon sa ke, lè peye a, se duvalye, lè peye a pi bon, toubale sa yo da pa yon rentre. Ya apwe toune la kay yo. Nou konè, apwe sa, nan tan isi, genyon bon kantite, sa swa ki te rentre vwema. Nan mwen isi yo, a yse vin gond peyod, nan katri ven yo, ke imaj nou ande yo peye a tenye elman bal. E yo mwen tre nou, kom man ki pov, bod pin pol, e id, si da, tout ba yisay. Apwe sa konye, nou vin gond jenerasyon, ki vin, apwe volye ke, nou bak konan yon be Haiti, yo konè 18 me, nou konè 1 janvye soubjoumou, avek teknoloji, tout ba yisay, ou bon, nou vin gond prideful, Haitian, Haitian Ameriken, ou soa Haitian, ken e pot sakeli, amwen m bak konen lopi yo, kwa so mab dou, Haitian Ameriken. Ki tre proud. Mer tre proud an nou an, e se nou fe 1804, apwe sa, bon nou bak konnet woponko. E, nou tout itinize, ki a yisay, toujou, resilient, I hate that word, resilient, e nou dis nou dat, e se bousa ke nou yive, kote tsu, anpil la nou, nou bat bo avo, nou bat Haiti. Tashon konle, mou bat evle di ke yo, a yisay, so konye nou bat bo avo, nou dis a yisay, ke nou ye, se Haiti, nou kampe sou do, anpil, ki fe nou se ti, ki fe nou se la. That's how I see the Haitian Ameriken crowd. That's how I see the diaspora. We use Haiti as a avenue of pride, verbally, and then I said, if we are honest with each other, if we want to be honest with each other, et tou, mba dis sel nou menm ki gen blem nan, se pa avwe, paske, lèk ou reyelman vle yon peyi avanse, ou soa vle pou peyi ou yive yon kote, ou pa ka just di nan bouj ke bon, ou e pou nou vini, pou nou traven nan, Haiti, pou se ti bre. Gon, gon so de klima, vi ou nou man potash va prepare, pou ke nou menm, moun vini, vini investi vweman. So, gon, mwen em toujou di Haiti, gon realite, ou god perception, sa nou di, pa, nan bouj nou, se pa sa ke lre nan realite, paske, aksyon pa matche, avek sa ka diya. E fok ke ou konen, fok ou kon pol, pou ka rentre, pou ka fonse de chanjman. Men sa, me konen ke gon imaj ke yon van jaspo a, yo feno realman pepe yinou, nou menm pou fami yinou, feno pepe yinou, ampil, e sa depan li kote moun nan. So, ti, lote jou, e, ma pala avek kouze m, pa, pou dou sa Haiti te genye, anvan swastat yo. Haiti, did you ever know, kwa in Haiti, you had house arrest? Mm-hmm. Mbak kwa ne pou tout kote, in Okap, you had house arrest. Well, if you, while they do an investigation, you had a house arrest, gon, polise ki vini, ki vini kampi, nan bout kwe kayou, ou pa ka soti, e, tribinal, ou te kon re lo nan tribinal, si ka ou fe, anou du wansakye, nou nan vila, ou fe, boui nan vila, mou kapote plet, yo we lo nan tribinal, ok, ou pe yon, nou de la jant, to ba isa. There's a lot of structure that was there before the 60s that we do not know of. So, we have a change in government without going back to that structure that we had, esteemé, maglois, how the country work, people who are in certain posts based on education, based on professionalism, and we have a huge brain drain, right? and then we are talking certain things in Haiti without knowing Haiti. I cannot come to Haiti and want to input my American stamp in Haiti because Haiti, even though I'm outside of Haiti, I'm Haitian, I grew up predominantly here. Haiti has a culture, it has a history, it has a group of people that is there. So, are you going to tell me if you're Canadian, you're going to come with your Canadian idea, if you're American, you're going to come with with your American idea, if you're in France, let go with your French idea and then impose on these people. So, I see the intention is there. We like to talk a lot, but doing is extremely difficult. Doing without ever been is nearly impossible. I don't think you need every single one of us, all the couple of millions that are outside of Haiti to actually be in Haiti to input some kind of change. But if you got a thousand of us that go and then you have a million of us that want to impact and cause a change, I think the realities are not there. They're not there. We have good intention. We have all of these things, but there's a reality that we are missing. and we could go further into that.

55:21Patrick Jean-Baptiste Yeah. So, so, yeah, let's dig a little bit deeper. So, give me an example of, a concrete example of that, that disconnectedness that, that you see with, with members of the diaspora who, who don't have a skin in the game in Haiti in the sense that you have, who have, even though you're here, you still connected to the land and, and you know, the reality, you know, the culture because they say, you know, texture, it's in your blood, you know? Well

55:59Guerline T. Emmanuel I think, I think that organization wise, like you said, one of the biggest problem, I think that we have as Haitians here is that we want to take the place of the government or we want to think that the government doesn't exist because for us, we don't see the government performing the way that it should. Basic protection of its citizens, we don't see it, we don't hear it. So, you can't come in and be the force of the police or come in with the idea that, I'll give you something very recent. If you were watching, you, we recently had an earthquake in the south of Haiti but predominantly in the areas, I would say more like, I think it hit more like Kauai area, more up in that area, right? When you want to go in and assist, I'm telling you because that's another thing too I have a big problem with is that we all see Haiti as a not-for-profit basket skate area to assist. No country developed by not-for-profit only. It doesn't work. Not-for-profit have its own way of functioning. So, development now, they have pushed us to the form of helping, helping, helping. that's another topic that we could spend years talking about. So, now you go in, it is in, you have to go to the Okai area, right? Okai area, they now have, I guess, you could still fly into, no, recently, they do have an airport in Jeremy under Jovenel Moise, that have a little airport in Jeremy and then the Okai one have been in the works or, but I don't think, I think you can land there, but I don't, it's a formally, formally airport. So, you have an earthquake, right? You have a bunch of not-for-profit. You want to help. I'm listening, just the ability to come from Port-au-Prince to get to Okai area and how do you drive through the country in the south. That's okay. You have to leave Port-au-Prince, then you have to pass Leogane, then you have to pass Jacques Mel, then you have to pass Grand Guave to Guave, all of these areas for you to start getting into Akien, Kavayon, Kampéin, and Ilavash even in Fass, Okai, and then you go all the way down to Jeremy, you keep going all the way up to Jeremy by his side, right? You want to help, but you don't know the lay of the land, the airport, the driving. Ok?

59:02Patrick Jean-Baptiste Oh, so I'll pass to the mental of the people who focus on the people who do in Haiti and view that as exploitation. So I'll pass to the foreign direct investment, which is at the core, is what we're talking about. what I hear normally mentioned is C-R-I-O, that always seems to be the boogeyman that is used to, but whenever I hear that, whenever I hear that, whether it's true or not, whenever I hear that, I'm always like, okay, then what? After you so give

59:43Guerline T. Emmanuel that are whatever. For me, the person is Haitian. The person is Haitian. As a Haitian citizen, there are certain things that I require that I think that every Haitian citizen to give back to their country and evolve in their country. If the person, you are here in the United States, they are foreign investors, they are domestic investors. Are you going to say your children are no longer are not American? Where were they born? What does the Constitution say? The Constitution have two things. That's it. If there's another thing that says that that's it. What I want to do is have

1:00:41to

1:00:41Guerline T. Emmanuel invest in Haiti? If there's foreign investment, what are the rules and regulations for the foreign investors? What are we paying our people in Haiti? What are we having in 2021? I want to be in a country where there's great technology taking place. you are using cell phone, my God, and then you are telling me I can't have basic necessity. That's what I want to concentrate my energy on. I see these as tools as these are tactics to take me off what is important and the word is not coming to me. Once I start going into a space and this is what we talking about, I move on. Because we're not having serious discussion. in 2021 for what we civics have going on in Haiti. Right now, we have been hit with two major earthquakes in a space of 10 years. What are we doing? What are we doing? In OCAP, we are the place that they are looking at having another major earthquake. We have talked about what we have talked about. What are we not going to see ! What are we going

1:02:08to have

1:02:08Guerline T. Emmanuel this discussion? I don't have the time. It's a waste of my time. I think that what I want to spend my energy on is how do we impact, how do we invest in the country to change the tide of where we are right now? If we are having this discussion, I will be there. If we are having the other discussion, waste of my time. I look, I'm looking for rules of law, law-abiding citizen. I'm looking for execution of those laws. You're looking for foundation and real construction of a justice system where people, rights and livelihood can be protected. If we want to have those conversations, to me, those are worthwhile conversations. The other stuff? Is it

1:02:58Patrick Jean-Baptiste possible to do that? Those sound like government level type of efforts, nation-state type of efforts. If we leave it up to every individual Haitian business person, it's going to take us five, six generations or longer to get to where we need to go. At some point, you have to talk about the government because that's the role of the government. it's a republic, it's a representative of democracy, right?

1:03:33Guerline T. Emmanuel I'm happy you said that because what is our role? What is your role as a citizen and what is the role of your government? Because you, what is lacking in your government that they need to show up so that you as the citizen can engage and be successful? And that's the question we should be acting because, like you just said, there's a lot of things that I'm saying. It's like, okay, how do I come and want to do all of this? It's the role of the government. So you need to do your research and find out, right? Like, for example, from OCAP, there's a lot of us who are concerned with the fact that you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, apre fè, nou menm ki monokap, nou menm ki konserné, nou menm ki gen relasyon avek monokap. Okay. But I have to ask myself first, protection sivil d'Aiti, right? Et protection sivil d'Aiti, what is their role? How is it structured? What do they do? Who in the town is in that role that you need to speak with? I'm going to take the place of what this entity is supposed to do. Okay. Yes, they are fragile. What are they in need of? Are you able to work with them? Are you able to have a relationship with them as a citizen? Do they have a volunteering force? And if they do have a volunteering force, you as a citizen, how do you work together with the person, the mayor, the this, the, that, to find out how to shore that up? But in back of the day, when you have a magistrate, you can say, even after you have a camp, ambulance, fire department, all of these things. It doesn't work. And for us in the diaspora, whatever we think, whether we think or believe they are doing a good job or not, you have to know that they exist. And then this entity is there. How are they functioning? And do you know the, like right now, there's a problem. I called Schumer's office. Am I going to come now in Haiti and be Schumer's office in Oka? Or am I going to call Schumer's office in New York? So if you are not Schumer in New York, what makes you think you can be the mayor and do the mayor's work because it's Haiti or because it's Oka? So for me, these are the things that I find that we, when it comes to Haiti, we don't have the common sense approach. You are in the United States of America, right? Why are you here? You're here because you like stability. You're here because the government changed from one end to the next. If you have been here for the past eight years, you have seen a different type of government, haven't you? Under the previous administration. Did you ask them to leave office or did you see that they take the person to trial? There is a procedure and a process. And then based on the procedure and the process, they still remain in office. Now, whatever you might think of, the procedure and process was interrupted. Your government officials sided with the administration or the legislative branch of government that was there. How did they function? You might have opinions about it, but you saw the process. But then now, I am the same person who now look at Haiti and said, well, It doesn't compute for me intelligently. Because you are here looking at the process and the procedure. You see when the corruption happened, what happened? So what do you want? What are you asking for? Are you asking for then these people in these places? If you are right here and Schumer didn't advocate for you or is not doing the work, what did you do? Are you going to vote for him again? Or are you going to have somebody else that represent your interests? And that's how we need to think about it. Because if we're not thinking about it, you can't ask for rules and regulations here and then turn around and say, oh, Whenever somebody do this as well, Because to me, you're a joke. Because you are asking for rule of law here, And then you want total chaos in the country that you say you love.

1:09:05Patrick Jean-Baptiste The soft bigotry of low expectation. Yeah.

1:09:10Guerline T. Emmanuel So it comes back to us. Change individually. Change the state. Change the mentality. Before you ask for Haiti. Because you are going to have a chance. To be able to live with Haiti or work with Haiti. Or change the world. You ask for rule of law here. And then you ask for chaos at home. That's a hypocrisy that I cannot deal with. You know you can't steal someone property here. But yet when it comes to a Haitian person or to an IET, You want it to be different. I can't take an individual seriously who does that.

1:10:02Patrick Jean-Baptiste How do you find a partner for your business? You could point out. How did you find them? What kind of resources did you use to try to find them?

1:10:11Guerline T. Emmanuel I think that as a task. We move with Haiti in a very funny way. To know Haiti is a hotel that is in an avion. After that, I'm going to go to. I'm going to go to. Right? That's one idea. The common sense perspective. Okay. There is insecurity. There is probably. There is gang someplace. Right? There's an earthquake that happened. It didn't happen in the whole of Haiti. You are one of the largest countries in the Caribbean. Okay? So. Come. See. You don't have just like. We are able to say New Orleans, New York, Texas, Florida. The work is done so well. When we speak of our country, we say Haiti. Well, I always say, which part of Haiti are you referring to? Because as a country, it's not the whole country. Right? Are you talking about Jack Mel? Ocap? Selin Jussu? Jeremy? Paul Prince? Kikwateko wa Pali? Hesh? Which area are you talking about Haiti? So that's the first thing. Second is our idea and the reality of Haiti. Do I have an idea of Haiti? Because I've been here and never been. You have people that are giving solutions for places they've never been. So the solutions to me doesn't even make sense. You are talking about a whole industry of a country that you never took the time to learn, research, and learn about. So how do you give a solution for something that you know nothing about? If you are, in the beginning when we were doing research, I wanted a research of how many people go into Haiti. How many people arrive? How many people this? How many people that? How many people come off Royal Caribbean? How many visitors do we get? There are certain information you can't find. They were not reported. So we actually went for three years to speak to people, call people, research, reach out, have phone conversations, do the research for us to know, okay, what makes sense? And then when you start doing that, one person will introduce you to someone else. We actually went to Milo to find our guide. We actually went to OCOP. We actually, there isn't a tour that we have done. We don't go and visit the place first to see if it's someplace we can bring you. We visit the sites. We do the research. We do the legwork. We invest in the research part because I can't find it sitting here. Even though I have a nice brochure, I go in and I'm like, this is not an area that I could bring somebody, even if it's something that the minister of tourism put in a brochure. There's certain logistical challenges that I cannot drive to this place. I cannot get, you know, there's a portion that you have to drive. Then there might be a couple of minutes, hours that you have to walk. So you have to do that work. So for me and Oga, it's extremely important that we do the work first. Even if I do have a partner that I work with, but I'm not naive of the terrain. How long does it take me to get you from Port-au-Prince to Jacques Bell, from Port-au-Prince to Okai, from Okai to Ilan Vash? Do I like the hotel? Do I like the restaurant? Is the service great? You know, we've done tours to the south of Haiti and I've been to different hotels before we do the tours to the south. We have to understand a lot of the people in the sector are mom and pop businesses. They are Haitian owned. They're not large conglomerate. That's another thing that I love about Haiti. You want to enforce Haiti, really? If you go to any hotel outside of Port-au-Prince, they're not foreign owned. They are Haitian owned. So you are putting your money directly within your economy with your own Haitian people that are hiring people in the town. Do we understand the culture that when I come into Bonayivo or Semag that I am working with someone in the city itself, Olembeo, so I'm con o Muna Zona, that my tour director work with so that they see that I'm working with one of their own. Even if I am Haitian, even if I do speak Creole, even if I am from Okap, do you understand that your own opening the door for you based on the fact that you are from the area? How do they know they're from the area? Well, when you speak to the Creole, you don't speak to the people that you speak to the people that you speak to. Automatically, it's a different field. And these are things that you cannot stay from afar and learn, right, based on the industry. But I also understand, too, that everybody want to go. Some people are looking to invest in Haiti. Some people are looking to just stay afar and invest. Do we offer that possibility? Are we missing on that opportunity? And we have. And we are. I see other. There's a great initiative that comes the other day that's out there for us to donate so that they can invest in the sector, in different businesses. But why do we need to donate? I want people to understand that. My parents come from Haiti in the early 70s. They were very hard to educate me. I also have an obligation to my children. I want to invest. I want them to have generational wealth. I want them to be part of certain industries and invest their money. Why are we always donating? We have to ask ourselves, what's wrong with other people coming into our country and investing in our country? But when it comes to the diaspora, we are giving them the opportunity to donate. The opportunity to stay from afar. The opportunity never to go in and be part of that change that we want. I'm tired of donating. Donating will take us far. We have been donating for years and we have gotten worse. So if we are looking at our return on donating, it's a failure.

1:17:12Patrick Jean-Baptiste So can you talk to me about, we talked offline a little bit about it, about gatekeepers, the gatekeeping system. For someone like me, who wants to, who hasn't been back in the country in 30 plus years, how do I trust? Do I need a gatekeeper? Which is different from a partner? Because to me, a partner in Haiti means you've done the research, right? Like you've looked into it, you've vetted the person, you know, they have skin in the game in the community that they're serving down there. That's the partnership part. But I'm talking about the gatekeepers who, for people like me who want to, who are considering just investing from afar, what are some of the pitfalls that I need to be aware of about gatekeepers? And how do I know whether a gatekeeper is in the best interest of the country or in the best interest of their bottom line? What, what, what, what sort of markers do I need to look at? Or flags, red flags that I should look at?

1:18:19Guerline T. Emmanuel The other day I got a book, a Google book, and you can look at it. It's on Google right now. Where it's called, I'm going to give you the name, leave blue that you see. It's on Google. This is, I think, around 1919, 1920. Take a look at it. It's like a Rolodex from back then, right? Because we didn't have the internet and we didn't have all these things. What is the Rolodex? It tells you if you're going to this town, this is who you need to see because they could facilitate A, B, C, D for you. Okay. These people make your work a lot easier. They are, a lot of them speak Creole. They speak English. They speak French, right? It's easy for you to get what you need to do because they are there and they know all the different arms. My question and my challenge to us is we say all the time everything is in Port-au-Prince, the Republic of Port-au-Prince. I say Haiti is a perception and reality. The perception is that we have a democracy and you have different departments. Okay. The reality is you're in the Republic of Haiti with one central department that is the gatekeeper of everything. Imagine you have an earthquake the other day. You need water. You need tents. You need this. You need that. Why are you getting all of that from Port-au-Prince? It's 2021. We're getting to the Villeaukaya. Okay. Why can't you get it from Aukaya first? And if you need extra before you get to Port-au-Prince along the way, uh-oh, ougeye leogane, right? Ougeye pretty guave, grung guave. Ougeye kampile, ouge tujontayo. Why are you not getting it from there first before you get it from Port-au-Prince? Because we need to get into the mindset that, God forbid, okap have a problem, right? I got, mgelembi, mgeye pomago, ougeye oboy, ougeye limonade, wanamet. You got all these areas around you. Why must I get it from the Capitol? You have an organization. You have a earthquake. Everyone know Okai. But the people that were impacted are two hours away in the mountains. They are further out. Why is the person you are connecting with is in Port-au-Prince? Are they able to bring you to all those little towns on the outskirt of Campes? Can they get you there? So how do we develop the country where we are not developing Okap, Paul Poules only? Okap is saturated. Too many people in the city. That's going to breed a whole other issue. No one is sitting there seeing all these people are in the mountains. See Rio, P.C. God forbid you are the net earthquake. A household. Everything is going to tumble on top of each other. So do I need to go through? You know, if New York have a problem, it's New York that we know, Florida that we know. Have you ever seen New York go to do work because New Jersey cannot? Do I need to go to New York to talk to me about New Jersey? The correlation for you to make the difference. It's insane. So why do you tell me that I have an earthquake and I need to buy things from Port-au-Prince to get to Okai? What is wrong with me buying from Okai to impact company? Okai? Jeremy to Pester. Leo Gan. Petri Guaf. Ganguaf. These are the problems. So your gatekeepers are going to bring you, excuse me, I'm sorry about that. Gatekeepers is because you are disconnected. It's because you don't know the lay of the land. You don't know the country. You don't know the areas that you want to impact. So your gatekeepers make it easy for you. But you have to understand that everyone have an agenda. And no one needs to have an agenda that is not good. Everyone should have an agenda. If I have a business, I have an agenda. My business and the reason why I choose to do tours to only Haiti is because I need to have that commitment to Haiti and I don't go to other countries. Because if I go to other countries, I know the other countries are going to make it so much easier for me to do tours in the other countries. Also, I do have a business, but I've diversified. So all my eggs are not in one basket because I have my BV star bag. So I have the ability and the cushion to, yes, I am getting a loss. And yes, I choose to because for me it's not just a business because there's something bigger that I'm looking at. I want you to connect with Haiti. I want you to understand that there is much more to this country than devastation countrywide. That there's a different area and different aspect that you can go to one place where the other place is not touristic ready. So it's a choice that we have made. But if you have absolutely 40, 50, 30 years outside of the country and you are going to look at all your business metrics and you are going to check them off, yes, you're going to need the gatekeepers. But you also have to understand that the gatekeepers and your agenda might not be aligned. So there's other work that you need to do yourself to make sure that this gatekeeper, which gatekeeper are you going to have? And you can't be upset because you have given away your God-given right to not in need of a keeper. So if you don't speak English, then there are many people who speak English. Isn't that true? So, you know, these are the things that you have to understand when you rationalize it that, hey, I'm going to need a gatekeeper who speaks English because there are no comfortable with English. Or are you comfortable with French? If you say that you speak English without French speaking English. Or are you in English? So it's based on your level of comfortability of working in the country, what you want to do, and then which gatekeeper you are going to have and what you are willing to give up for that gatekeeper to make it possible for you, to make you comfortable, and then for you to be successful. So gatekeepers are not always 100% bad, but the one thing that I refuse for someone to do for me is to tell me that, oh, I'm able to do something in Haiti because. No. What gives you that right? You don't have that right. You will not take my God-given right from me. So that's the only place where I have a problem with gatekeepers telling you that you cannot do anything in Haiti. Hey, you know how many foreigners are in your country doing things in Haiti? Why can't you?

1:26:33Patrick Jean-Baptiste Yolande, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Love it.

1:26:41Guerline T. Emmanuel Thank you so much. It has been a pleasure to be. First of all, thank you, Patrick, for inviting me, what you are doing, and giving me the time and the space to speak about one of my greatest love, which is IET, and how we interact with IET. So I say thank you for inviting me to speak to you and your public and giving me the space to talk about Bellevue Tours, Beery Styles, and also now my new thing that I'm looking at is civic response IET to try to find a way of interact with Haiti and be civically responsible in a manner that I can assist and bring the knowledge that I have and the experience with, not for, with my brothers and sisters in Haiti. So thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak.

1:27:48Patrick Jean-Baptiste No problem. I'd love to have you back for you to discuss that organization even more in depth. We can focus on that. And you are very comfortable talking about yourself, by the way. I have it on tape now. That's all I have to say. You can be. Ah, you're good.

1:28:10Guerline T. Emmanuel When I'm invited, I can't. I always say I don't have the problem to speak. It's just like in the beginning, but once I get going, you know, once I get going, is it for me. Thank you.

1:28:23Patrick Jean-Baptiste Merci, love. Okay, I'll talk. Okay. Thank you. Have a great day.

1:28:25Guerline T. Emmanuel Okay. Thank you. Have a great day.